Sunday, October 16, 2005

Oh Ciaran, Your Arrogance Makes Me Weep

Oh Lord, below is a comment I got to my post "The End Times are Like a Woman In Labor." As you read it, notice how Ciaran seethes with arrogance. He's going to "school me," he says. And then he proceeds to trash my religious beliefs, judging me, as though he is the Lord, himself. Read his comment carefully, though. Notice how he twists my words, and notice how he simply misunderstands them.

"aaahhhhh.... well Nathaniel you're forcing me to do it, I’m going to now have to school you in what appears to be focal point in your sad, misguided life. But before I start don’t get me wrong at least your eyes are on the right guy. Now class is in session. First of all "and so too will God come back to us" God doesn't turn to us. Its our job to turn to god. Your going to want to remember that point it's going to be on the test later. If we ask for help god will come get us in the darkness but not unless we turn to him first... wait ... sorry who am I to say what gods gonna do .... that would make me sound like you. You think Jesus only started to learn the word at age 12? Man cmon ... that’s one part of the bible where you hear that he is gifted when it comes to this stuff and why shouldn't he be, he is the son of god... "Therefore, Traditional Christian Families, it is imperative, for the sake your children’s immortal souls that you use only the strictest, most severe, and most harsh physical means imaginable to correct your children when they start to exhibit any sinful nature, and in particular when they start to question authority" Now let me ask you something was Jesus displaying a sinful nature when he went off and didn’t let his parents know what was up? Somehow I don't think so... I'm guessing his parents forgave him, he apologized for the misunderstanding and he was subject to them, not Joseph beat him with a stick and he didn’t question authority again till he was 30. Which brings me to a good point... most of what Jesus did in his time was by most peoples of the time opinion questioning authority. What do you have to say to that? You know what I probably don't care what you have to say to that. It's probably just more mindless drivel. Now to my mind being corrupted by sin... you know what it's not just my mind it's every inch of me. But that’s not the reason that your not getting through to me... you're not getting through to me because your message is EVIL....... and I put on the amour of the lord to protect me from crap like this. But here’s the thing this site is good.... its good for you.... it's good because you can go back and look at all the stuff you've said and then hopefully you can do some serious soul searching and think ... would Jesus actually be saying this type of stuff and then between you and him be it .... god doesn't love...... god is love... that’s it ...he is love... so how can something that is pure love becoming out with this... it's simple... he wouldn't.... "



Point 1:
Ciaran accuses me of representing that it is not we that must turn to God, but God who comes to us. Well, sure, if you read half of the sentence that is what I say; however, read the phrase in context:
But eventually, after the wife turns back into the beautiful woman he married, the husband comes back to the wife, and so too will God come back to us

If you read and UNDERSTAND the entire quote, I am basically saying that, like a wife who must exercise and eat right and take care of herself, such that her husband will again find her attractive, we must exercise our faith, eat the words of the Lord, and take care to walk a path of righteousness, before God will come back to us. And what exactly does this mean? That once we turn to Him, He will come back. Now maybe I added an extra step. God is God afterall, so He doesn't literally need to walk over and give us a great big hug; it'll be more along the lines of an instantaneous transport device and God will suddenly bless the Earth with his glory save us from the end times. Of course this is pure speculation; I really have no idea what it'll be like, only that it will be glorious.

Point II
Ciaran then goes on to criticize something said in another post, "The Importance of Harsh Physical Discipline." (Note:I did not write that post; it was brother in Christ Dr. Parnell). I find his problem, however, somewhat offensive. Because Jesus was not beaten or spanked for running off as a child, for some reason we're not supposed to physically punish our children? Does Ciaran not realize that Jesus was the Son of God? He ran off because he had good reason to; but when our children disobey, it is out of pure insolence and disrespect for authority. Of course I am entirely generalizing; maybe there's a child out there who is also a son of God and also has good reason to disobey his or her father or mother. Hopefully, however, God will have let the boy's parents in on this fact -- perhaps via virgin birth -- so they too will know not to beat the child. Ciaran follows this train of logic to propose that, because Jesus questioned authority, children too should be able to question authority. Again, this is offensive. I would say it's the exact opposite: it's because he questioned authority that children should not. They -- WE -- are not Jesus, so attempting to mimic every part of his life is futile and ultimatily dangerous. Allowing children to question authority will lead only to their having a God complex. And I think that is the heart of Ciaran's problem: he has a God complex.

Point III
Elsewhere in his comment, Ciaran further proposes that when I address the world's problems I think of what Jesus would say. This, to a point, of course, is good advice. Jesus' love and compassion for us is unsurpassed, and the world needs more love and compassion in it. But the fatal flaw in this argument is that if a man were to cut Jesus, Jesus would love him; if the man were to then punch him, love would still abound; and on and on it would continue, and Jesus would be filled with love. And Jesus, son of God, can do that; and he was meant to do that, as an example of God's love for us. But we are not Jesus or God; if we allow someone to cut us and continue to beat us, the world would collapse into chaos.

Conclusion
I feel the need to respond to Ciaran not because I am angry at his words, but because they make me want to weep. They are representative of a much larger problem that afflicts the Christian community, as well as the nation as a whole. They are so arrogant, so sure that they can walk the path Jesus himself walked, they are willing to allow this nation -- the world, even -- to be overrun with un-Godliness for the sake of love and compassion. Abortionists infiltrate their neighborhoods: judge not lest ye be judged. Homosexuals marry in their churches: Jesus loves even sinners. Murderers and thieves steal: Jesus loves them; therefore, we can do no more than slap them on the wrist. God, Himself, did not behave as Calian suggests. Remember, for example, He commanded Moses to conquer the Midianites; and once that battle was won, all the males, including children, were slain, as were the women who had known a man by lying with him. By Ciaran's standards, God is evil, which, I think, tells us all we need to know about him and his ideas...

6 Comments:

Blogger Phil said...

Ha! That'll teach him to mess with you, brother Nathaniel!

3:31 PM  
Blogger Nathaniel said...

i really think, chris, that you need to separate judgment from punishment. so perhaps i misspoke. i think i have a right to punish people (or at least think of punishments) here on earth. of course i'll leave the judging to God. and while i wish i had the capacity for love and forgiveness that jesus does, i am a sinner and therefore doubt my ability to forgive a man 77 times. i think my capacity for forgiveness stands at approximately 4 times. This, of course, makes me a weak person; but it is my hope that my prayers and my acceptance of jesus will eventually lead to my becoming a better man. until then, after 4 times of personally being wronged by someone, I do believe they should be tortured, although really this is just an approximation, as it depends on a) my mood and b) what, exactly, they did to me. at the same time, i truly feel that after their being tortured and after much prayer i will still be able to forgive them and love them as my fellow man.

11:32 AM  
Blogger Nathaniel said...

where did i learn all of this stuff? from reading the bible and prayer. what i would like to know is where you learned to interpret the bible. i am glad you were not president during 9/11, because our country would now lie in a smoking pile of ruins.

it is easy to incorporate the ideas of this site into the core teachings of the gospel. forgiveness, love, turning the other cheek -- this is all something that is to be done at a personal level, not at the expense of our safety and well being. we can punish yet forgive and love. we can be hurt and turn the other cheek by continuing to love those that attack us, while at the same time crippling them and ensuring they never hurt us again.

you, i am afraid, use the gospels to be weak.

7:04 AM  
Blogger Nathaniel said...

sorcha, i must be talking to a brick wall or perhaps you've been so corrupted by the decadence of today's society you simply cannot listen. if feelings of love for criminals and the filth of society allows you to feel better about your life while allowing you to escape ever having to take action to cleanse the unholiness around you, then that is not a very useful or worthwhile life.

but i digress. you seem to miss my point and/or misunderstand my words. one can love those they punish. Jesus, I think, will still love those that don't embrace him and are condemed to an eternity of hell after the glorious appearing. He loves those that commit horrible crimes.

Also, I am not judging the people I wish to punish. I do not know what's in their heart. God will know. What I do know is that there should be consequences when society has been wronged. What I also know is that currently there are not enough consequences and/or the consequences are too weak.

11:09 AM  
Blogger Nathaniel said...

ciaran believes in utopia, like he's Ayn Rand or a communist. sure, if everyone followed the path of jesus, the world would not collapse into chaos. just like if everyone were equal and didn't need incentives to work communism would be a great idea. Or if we just left people to their own devices to make the most out of the world, forgetting the sinful nature of humans and the fact that the powerful take advantage of the weak, Ayn Rand would be right. yet we don't live in such a perfect world. not everyone follows the path of jesus or even believes in him, choosing to follow their own path and/or that we decended from monkeys. to make matters worse, we are sinful by nature and some of us are even evil, so it is important that those that don't follow jesus' path are made to or taken off the path all together with random disfigurement.

and i'm especially horrified that ciaran can dismiss moses so easily, as though jesus and god exist in a vacuum. by ciaran's logic we should just remove the ten commandments from the schools and courts. i suppose he thinks god simply evolved from this being that slew cities for turning away from Him into this compassionate guy who forgave all sins and offered no consequences. as though He was like, "damn, this fear of God thing isn't working; I think I'll try something new." maybe the old testament god was a monkey, and the new testament god is human.

as for the idea that i would torture somebody for pissing me off, well, that's a simple misrepresentation of my words. disfigurement is for only extreme cases, like murder, rape or theft. while i don't deny that pissing me off approximately 4 times deserves some sort of consequence and that i'm a weak person for not immediately being able to forgive, i don't condone torture for simply being irritating.

in any event, i hope ciaran visits again soon. he may be wrong, but he provides for much interesting discussion.

3:07 PM  
Blogger Nathaniel said...

karizma, i think you misunderstood my point. you only have to be pretty for your man to turn to you. that is your duty as a woman, just as it is the man's duty to provide for you. i was simply saying that we are like a woman and we have a duty to God before He will be there for us the way a man will be for his woman.

5:59 PM  

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